Life is better with a Roland Sound Canvas. Looking for some feedback.

[CkRtech]

I've been lurking around the Queststudios forum for a few weeks, and I've done a lot of searching about various Roland Sound Canvas boxes, the MT-32, Sound Blaster MPU compatibility, Sierra, old games - You name it.

I recently built a vintage gaming PC. This particular one is a Pentium 100. I have an old Sound Blaster 16 in it, and just acquired an MT-32 for it. Wow. Those Sierra games really pop. I found myself loading them up simply to play the music. I got a decent amount of enjoyment of Sierra games back in the day as I had a Wave Blaster, but that certainly didn't cover SQ3, PQ2, and several other games out there.

Let me give you a bit of background in my interest with MIDI and the desire to go beyond OPL3-gaming even more.

My interest in MIDI soared when I obtained a Wave Blaster daughtercard for my SB16 circa 1994. By 1999, I was running a Diamond Monster MX300 with said Wave Blaster alongside an AWE64 Gold. I had "three" soundcards running in the same box, and could pick and choose which instruments played as I ran various MIDI files through Midisoft Studio. It was great.

MIDI didn't quite make the turn into the 2000s. My interest dropped a bit, but it is quickly surging as I have built this old computer for gaming. I couldn't help but notice the QuestStudios forum as I did my research.

Now I find myself questioning which General MIDI solution I should shoot to buy - SC-55? SC-55MkII? SC-88?

I have a new found appreciation for my MIDI interests in the past as I build this machine as I have found that I still have access to - SB16, AWE64 Gold, Wave Blaster, Wave Blaster II, Diamond Monster MX300, and now a 1st gen MT-32.

I would prefer to run the MT-32 (and other devices) off a genuine MPU-401 of some sort (MPU-IPC, etc), however I have to settle for the SB16's UART output for now. Those IPCs don't show up on ebay that often with their ISA card - or at least I haven't seen any. I would love to go to a genuine MPU-401 interface someday.

Forgive me for writing so much. If you will allow me to ask a few questions -

1: What "base" sound card would you recommend for this system? While an MPU-401 style solution would be good for MIDI devices, digital playback and a functional (compatible) MPU-401 interface seems good. Should I stick with an SB16, move to an AWE32/AWE64 or look elsewhere? This DSP causes hanging notes on the Wave Blaster (I remember it from back when), which leads me to my next question -

2: Is there an external solution to these daughtercards? I would love to have the Wave Blaster and Wave Blaster II hooked up at the same time. I have a friend that is going to possibly give me a Yamaha DB50XG. Have you guys built breakout boxes? I have pretty decent skills with a soldering iron. If you guys have suggestions, please share.

And here is the big one that obviously takes each person's opinion into account on this forum:

3: If I am going to take a dive into the world of the Roland Sound Canvas, which one should I buy? I imagine I can always add more SC later, but if I wanted one for General MIDI gaming (X-Wing, DOOM, later Sierra, etc)...which one should I get? SC-55 MkII? Are there any advantages that an SC-55 has over an SC-55 MkII? Seems like MkII would be a natural upgrade, but are there issues or incompatibilities? I listened to a few of Salient's examples that compare the same music across various games. Game-wise, it *seems* like some model of the SC-55 (over SC-88) is in order. SC-88's SC-55 mode didn't seem to have the same "warm punch" (as I would like to call it) that the authentic SC-55 did.

Someone here posted a recording of Wing Commander Privateer on an SC-55, and it sounded awesome! The Wave Blaster pales in comparison with that one. It's sad that the original WB didn't quite know Reverb and Chorus. While the Wave Blaster II and AWE64 had it, I didn't think the instrument set sounded that great.

4: Although my primary interest is gaming, I may want to bring back MIDI playback activity. Does that change which SC I should get, or does it simply mean I should buy more of them? haha. SC-88 needed for good MIDI playback?

Sorry for the expansive message. Good talking to you guys.

Thanks!
Chris

[andrew603]

Assuming you have the budget, I would go with an SC-88 or better.

For me, it's usually about the polyphony requirements of the game I want to play.  When notes get dropped in a song it's pretty distracting.

The 64 note polyphony of the SC-88 puts it well over the top for the "newer games" of the era such as Doom, Duke3D, Warcraft.  Those games sometimes reach the 28 note polyphony limit of the SC-55mkii pretty quick in my experience, but don't even touch the 64 note capability of the SC-88.

As for the soundmap, I tend to lean towards the SC-88's soundmap these days.

Overall, I think the SC-88 provides a better experience because of this.  Then, having the MT-32 to goto for the classic games would top it all off.

If you have something specific you would like to hear, I can record it with both synths to give you a better idea.

[jharris01]

For most people, an SC-55 and an MT-32 will do just fine. If you want to spend more money, then get a pricier model.

EDIT: The MK-II has some improvements, so in that sense you should try and get that one over the original model. That said, it won't affect your gaming experience. Any variant will do.

[andrew603]

Ck,

I am posting these recordings for you here in response to our PM conversation for reference.  Also I posted them to my website here.


Some Doom Recordings:
Doom E2M2 - Roland SC-55mkII
Doom E2M2 - Roland SC-88
Doom E2M2 Remix - Roland SC-8820


Here are some recordings from SQ5 and 6:

Space Quest 5 Soundtrack - First 5 Minutes - Roland SC-55mkII
Space Quest 5 Soundtrack - First 5 Minutes - Roland SC-88
Space Quest 5 Soundtrack - First 5 Minutes - Roland SC-8850

Space Quest 6 Theme - Roland SC-55mkII
Space Quest 6 Theme - Roland SC-88
Space Quest 6 Theme Remix- Roland SC-8850

Space Quest 6 Orion's Belt Bar Part 3 - Roland SC-55mkII
Space Quest 6 Orion's Belt Bar Part 3 - Roland SC-88
Space Quest 6 Orion's Belt Bar Part 3 Remix- Roland SC-8850

Space Quest 6 Roger's Place - Roland SC-55mkII
Space Quest 6 Roger's Place - Roland SC-88
Space Quest 6 Roger's Place Remix- Roland SC-8850

[BlueMax]

This is the first time I caught myself thinking, "I like the classic SC-55's sound better than the SC-88"...  For SQ5, for certain.  The 8850 sounds better, but not leaps-and-bounds better.

The classic SC-55 will be much easier and cheaper to find, too.  Don't forget to also include the SC-33 and Boss Dr. Synth in your search - they're all essentially the same.  Our own buy/sell area may have some today!

[andrew603]

The only problem with that, again, is if you want to use it for anything besides games the polyphony of the 55 series is just too low.

[CkRtech]

Thanks, guys & thanks to andrew603 for the samples! I am trying to suppress the urge to build a Roland Armada-of-Devices.

I have a cheap, 4 channel (stereo) mixer. Anyone have a recommendation for a good, affordable mixer with a short footprint? I'll eventually want to upgrade, but funds will most likely go toward a Sound Canvas next.

[Doctor Creep]

For most people, an SC-55 and an MT-32 will do just fine.

I can only second that. Here's another example what you get choosing SC-55:

http://www.alice-dsl.net/lgoerke/noctropolis.ogg

(from the game Noctropolis)

Doc

[andrew603]

Thanks, guys & thanks to andrew603 for the samples! I am trying to suppress the urge to build a Roland Armada-of-Devices.

I have a cheap, 4 channel (stereo) mixer. Anyone have a recommendation for a good, affordable mixer with a short footprint? I'll eventually want to upgrade, but funds will most likely go toward a Sound Canvas next.

I recommend the Yamaha MG series.  The MG102 would give you an extra stereo pair, or the MG124 would give you two more stereo pairs and multiple outputs.  I have both of these models and they work great for me.

EDIT: here are some photos.

[jharris01]

I have a cheap, 4 channel (stereo) mixer. Anyone have a recommendation for a good, affordable mixer with a short footprint? I'll eventually want to upgrade, but funds will most likely go toward a Sound Canvas next.

The SC-55 has an input port on the back, allowing you to mix an external stereo source. In other words, you can connect an MT-32 to a SC-55 and have them both share the line input in your computer. You mute one to let the other play.

If that's not what you meant then try an Ebay search for Realistic Radio Shack mixers. This one has a small footprint and it's the same width as a SC-55. You can stack the mixer on top no problem. Radio Shack still sells this model but with a smaller, modern look.

[CkRtech]

Thanks again, guys.

What is the current going rate for an SC-55Mkii? Most of the ones I see on ebay are around $110-$125 and tend to have large shipping fees ($35-$50) since they appear to mostly be located in Japan.

Is $150 the realistic going rate, or will waiting for domestic sales (U.S.) help me out?

What about the SC-88? $200?

[Tom]

I picked up this nice, small mixer for about $75, a little while ago.  It's a XENYX 1002FX stereo mixer that currently accommodates my MT-32, SC-8820, and MU-100.  Used to have my AWE-32 hooked up as well, when I was using the arrangement for game playing.  This mixer gives you a lot of great sound enhancement and control options.  For the price, I think it's a great little mixer!

[CkRtech]

Wow, Tom! Pretty slick and feature-packed for something that size.

One other dilemma I will probably have soon is how I will organize all of the devices. I don't have any room on the desk at the moment (it is a smaller desk with a big monitor), so everything is on the floor. I think I am going to shoot for an under-desk solution of some sort so I still have everything right under my nose. It's just a matter of finding something that is the right fit and allows for some sort of wire management (or at least does a good job of hiding a rat's nest!)

Here are the beginnings of the setup. Certainly nothing to brag about, but definitely something that will be exciting to build upon. That's a first gen MT-32. I am still learning about the differences/advantages/disadvantages of first gen. Aside from the sound, I definitely wanted "Insert Buckazoid" (among other things) to appear on the screen when I played Space Quest and other Sierra titles.

(Click for larger size)

[Doctor Creep]

Someone here posted a recording of Wing Commander Privateer on an SC-55, and it sounded awesome! The Wave Blaster pales in comparison with that one.

This one?

http://www.alice-dsl.net/lgoerke/sc55.mp3

BTW: Got a CM-300 the other day for 18 Euro (Ebay). Sort of SC-55 without display - soundwise it's identical to the SC-55

Doc

[CkRtech]

Hey Doctor Creep,

Yep. That's the one.

A buddy of mine gave me a Sound Blaster 16 with a 4.05 DSP. Perhaps I can integrate some wavetable daughtercard GMIDI until I purchase an external box (which would seem to be a SC-55mkii).