Need Yamaha S-YXG50 soft-synth help

[dvwjr]

My first post on your fine forum.    Noticed some of the VOGONS alumni over here also - in the magic mirror I see Great Hierophant, Mike 01Hawk, Cloudschatze, MusicallyInspired, 5u3 (no, I am not stalking you  ) and others.  Sorry I'm so late to the MIDI party...

I am working on a replacement Win32 NSIS based installer/patcher to allow the original DOS SYSTEM SHOCK (floppy version v1.5S) to function properly in the WinXP NTVDM environment and to provide the very last versions of the MILES AIL2 sound-card drivers used by the game. Forum member 5u3 has been kind enough to take time to be the beta tester and sound-card maestro.  This original version of the game SYSTEM SHOCK has no digital voice acting as did the later enhanced CD-ROM version - only single channel digital sound effects and mood-enhancing positionally-triggered 'music'  provided by the MILES XMI 'extended MIDI'  files composed for either SB/Adlib OPL, or General MIDI as interpreted by SB AWE32/64 EMU, Gravis Ultrasound GF1, or whatever GM MIDI device was hung off the MPU-401 interface.  The music/sounds-only version of SYSTEM SHOCK has to rank as one of the true DOS MIDI classics of the mid-1990s era.

So in my never-ending quest to bloat the features of this replacement installer/patcher I wanted to provide access to as many sound-card/MIDI options as possible.  When it comes to the 'golden era' of game MIDI this looks like the place for possible help.  Even though the SYSTEM SHOCK music XMI files for General MIDI appear to have been composed on and for the Roland SC-55, those same XMI files are used for the SB AWE32 and the Gravis Ultrasound.  However, most users running Windows XP on modern PCs with only PCI/PCIe slots might not have access to any classic ISA-slot MIDI device or a softsynth other than what is bundled with Creative Labs PCI sound cards or the default DirectMusic Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth.  So that leaves the two main non-Microsoft/Creative MIDI soft-synths available today: the Roland VSC v3.23 (which I recently purchased) and the defunct (but downloadable) Yamaha S-YXG50 v4.23.14S WDM XG soft-synths.  Most folks probably will not buy the Roland VSC just to play the September 1994 version of SYSTEM SHOCK, they might however have or use the Internet-available Yamaha S-YXG50 soft-synth.

This is where I would need your help and MIDI sound expertise.  The Yamaha S-YXG50 might not compare to the Roland SC-55 based MIDI hardware/soft-synth output but still might provide a superior output for the SYSTEM SHOCK MIDI music as compared to the default Microsoft DirectMusic soft-synth. The default wavetable data included with the Yamaha S-YXG50 soft-synth is a 2MB compressed wavetable data file.  I have read on this forum that the Yamaha S-YXG50 soft-synth is somewhat based on the Yamaha DB50XG hardware wavetable daugherboard - which uses a 4MB compressed wavetable ROM.

I would need help in testing/listening to the Yamaha S-YXG50 soft-synth while using the little-known 'optional' 4MB compressed wavetable data files.  The Yamaha S-YXG50 v4 soft-synth always had the capability to use the 4MB compressed wavetable files but was always configured and shipped with the default 2MB compressed wavetable data files.  I will provide a ZIP file containing the 4MB compressed wavetable data files and a Windows XP registry file which can be imported to modify the Yamaha S-YXG50 soft-synth to use the included 4MB files.  Just to answer the inevitable question - no I did not steal the Yamaha 4MB compressed wavetable data files - I got them from Yamaha.    The MIDI experts and 'golden-ears' who compose the membership of this forum would have a far better understanding of any improvement that these 4MB compressed wavetable data files have over the default 2MB versions.  I would be curious about any improvement detected by those forum members have are familiar with the Yamaha 2MB S-YXG50 soft-synth or the hardware DB50XG with its 4MB ROM using XG MIDI songs with which they are quite familiar.  Even the GM sounds which SYSTEM SHOCK would use might be improved - which is my hope.

I have configured the registry entries for testing - be aware that I have had WinXP Yamaha driver BSODs during my testing process - you might also...  The WinXP BSODs were apparently due to not enough memory being allocated by the Yamaha SXGXGWDM.SYS driver for the 4MB compressed wavetable data.  I changed a registry entry to increase this allocated memory and have not had any BSODs recently.  However, it takes the playing of quite a few MIDI files to create the BSOD condition, so my current registry config change may not be enough.  Your testing will help determine if the 4MB wavetable data files can be used successfully with the current registry setting or find it necessary to modify the registry entry.  The BSODs are not as bad as they seem, as the Roland VSC.SYS can BSOD WinXP if the VSC player is used in drag-n-drop mode.  Please let me know if you would wish to test your installed Yamaha S-YXG50 soft-synth with these larger wavetable data files.  I can either PM them on this forum (if attachments are allowed) or make them available from my Verizon web-space for a limited time.

The other sound-card that would be interesting to test would be the AdLib Gold OPL based sound card.  The SYSTEM SHOCK install had support for the AdLib Gold, however that ISA sound-card seems to be a bit rare.  If someone could volunteer to test and record an XMI file from an AdLib Gold that could be added to the extensive recordings already performed by 5u3.  I can ship you the limited DOS files needed for testing the SYSTEM SHOCK Introduction theme.

I appreciate any interest and help that you might provide for either the Yamaha S-YXG50 or the AdLib Gold.  I'll check back on this forum for any vict... volunteers that might be interested.


Thanks again,

dvwjr

[Alistair]

Firstly, welcome, always good to see someone who likes MIDI/etc.

Second.
My personal opinion is that the Microsoft GS Softsynth, for people who don't care (which is most gamers I'm afraid), sounds very like the SC-55 for playing the same files. Unless I myself am wearing headphones, I don't notice, much anyways (little things like reverb/chorus, but there's hardly any in most games anyway).

I also think the idea of doing the SYXG50 option is probably not such a great one. The Microsoft synth will sound better 99.9% of the time (well, probably 100%) for any GM score I've heard.

My recommendation- do your thing for System Shock, but just update the code- don't do this XG and Adlib stuff. People have General MIDI support, and the Microsoft synth will be more than good enough for most, even for me. (If people can handle MUNT as a passable MT-32, the Microsoft synth IS a SC-55 in their eyes ).

Unless this is some sort of project you really, really want to do. But I can't envisage you really want to code monkey for you and 2 other guys who like the new support.

Just my 2 cents.

- Alistair

[Kaminari]

I'll take even the S-YXG20 any day over Microsoft's GM synth (which is NOT GS compatible, despite it's name).

[Alistair]

I'll respectfully disagree with you. Even if a MIDI file was tweaked for those softsynths, I'd take the Microsoft synth over it in most cases, but as for true SC-55 tracks- 100% of the time, the Microsoft synth sounds better. More accurate I guess is a better description. But I think XG sounds really, really weak for most SC-55 pieces. Maybe a better way of putting it is, 'without converting a SC-55 GM piece for XG, the piece will sound poor'. Admittedly, not much tweaking should be needed.

But I'm not even a huge fan of my MU-100R for SC-55 GM pieces- let alone a crappy softsynth.
 
- Alistair

[dvwjr]

I'll take even the S-YXG20 any day over Microsoft's GM synth (which is NOT GS compatible, despite it's name).

Well, I'll be happy if the Yamaha S-YXG50 4MB wavetable sounds better than the 2MB wavetable to the MIDI experts here... 

Here is what the Yamaha Setup screen "Detailed Settings" should look like with the correct Yamaha files added to the default Yamaha S-YXG50 softsynth installation.  I might have to update the files I sent to you again.  I sent you the incorrect REG file.  I would also ask you to look at the version number of the SXGXWDM.SYS file in the %SystemRoot%\system32\drivers sub-directory.  I might need to update that file for you also.  Please also look at your SXGMASYS.TBL file in the %SystemRoot%\system32 sub-directory.  This file has the first eight bytes identify the version - should be 1.00.04, many have 1.00.00 instead.

Most folks will not have displayed the Size:  radio buttons for 2MB and 4MB...

Let me know,

dvwjr

[shad0wfax]

When it comes to 'how it compares with the SC-55', window's GM softsynth may be better than S-YXG50, but if we are speaking about a synthesizer's sound quality, I think that Yamaha's softsynth is far better (I might say that even better than VSC).

On the other hand, I disagree with Alistair when he says that 99% (or even 100%) of GM games (or scores) sound better with Windows' GM softsynth. There are some games (for instance, Doom 1 and 2) which IMO sound better with a XG soft/hard synth. Also, X68000's Akumajo Drakula sounds very nice on a XG synth (and it's a GS -not GM- score). Perhaps this is not the case when talking about Sierra's games, because they were written especifically for the sound canvas.

Finally, besides the SYSTEM SHOCK project, I find it very interesting to have the option of using a 4Mb waverom file with the S-YXG50, as this can let compare it with a real DB50XG or a SW60XG and see if there's any real improvements in sound quality when using hardware.

[Alistair]

Really, I'm talking about Sierra games, as I've no experience with XG MIDI files for many non-Sierra PC games (although I have a bit with XG console game music, as lots of people arrange for it).

I think the softsynth is OK, but still worse than Roland's VSC (as a softsynth), even.

Still, they're both good. For most SC-55 pieces I've heard, the Microsoft synth or VSC would be preferable to the SYXG50 synth though.

We'll have to do comparisons.. <rubs hands> Shame about the 'no time' factor.

- Alistair

[dvwjr]

My recommendation- do your thing for System Shock, but just update the code- don't do this XG and Adlib stuff. People have General MIDI support, and the Microsoft synth will be more than good enough for most, even for me. (If people can handle MUNT as a passable MT-32, the Microsoft synth IS a SC-55 in their eyes  ).

Unless this is some sort of project you really, really want to do. But I can't envisage you really want to code monkey for you and 2 other guys who like the new support.

The only code changes to the SYSTEM SHOCK executable, SSHOCK.EXE and INSTALL.EXE involved only correcting problems with the code operating properly under the WinXP NTVDM emulation (and of course DOS and DosBox) plus fixing some bugs which were left in the shipping floppy-diskette version.  The other major portion of the NSIS installer will be to include support for as many audio/MIDI sound cards (now also MIDI softsynths) by installing the latest Miles AIL2 sound-card drivers that existed.  No coding work necessary on my part to add the drivers. I think preserving the various sound-card selections of the DOS-era games is important so that those in the future don't think that all games had 7.1 channel DDS/DTS surround sound available. :-)  The retro-PC folks might even have some of the seldom heard DOS sound-cards of that era installed in their retro-PCs.  Others will have access to the sound-card emulations of DosBox, VPC or VMMware.  Same with the MIDI selections, the more the merrier...

So if anyone has an actual AdLib Gold, Pro Audio Spectrum, Pro Audio Spectrum Plus, Soundscape or RAP10 sound card - and would wish to contribute a recording, please let me know.  To get the process started the following paragraphs describe some of the AVI and OGG Vorbis audio-video/audio files included in this forum posting.  Have to see what the 4MB waveRom Yamaha S-YXG50 v4.23.14S WDM softsynth sounds like compared to the below examples...


Here are seventeen audio/audio-video examples the possible selections of 'music cards' for the configuration of the 1994 DOS game SYSTEM SHOCK. The SYSTEM SHOCK vF1.5P or vF1.6C INSTALL programs were used to play the appropriate "Introthm.xmi" (GM or OPL) file as the demonstration music track. The SYSTEM SHOCK Introduction theme in each case was recorded as a 22,050Hz stereo signal, the exceptions being the IBM PC Speaker at 11,025Hz, the Roland Virtual Sound Canvas v3.23 and the Roland SCC-1A at 44,100Hz.  The AVI files will stream, the OGG files will download, then play.

Eight of the file links listed below are to AVI container files which have the video encoded with the Windows Media Video 9 codec and the sound encoded with Fraunhofer IIS MPEG Layer-3 codec at 80kBits/s, 22,050Hz, Stereo. The samples files were captured with Dosbox v0.65 video recording or from direct recording from another PC workstation line output in the case of recording from actual sound cards. The Dosbox recordings were converted from the native ZMVB lossless codec/WAV format to the WMV9/MP3 AVI format via the Virtual Dub v1.6.16 release. 

I am most grateful for the seven Ogg container Vorbis audio format files which were provided by SYSTEM SHOCK installer Beta tester and forum member 5u3.  He provided a multitude of actual sound card recordings from those he owns, including the SoundBlaster 2.0, SoundBlaster Pro 2.0, SoundBlaster AWE32 Pnp, SoundBlaster AWE64 Gold, Roland SCB-55 daughtercard, Roland SCC-1 (rev A), Gravis Ultrasound ACE and a Roland LAPC-I.  The Roland LAPC-I example was not included since the General MIDI Introthm.MID file was not compatable with the LAPC-I.

Each of the eight AVI files is around 2-3 MB each, if you have limited download bandwidth. Most Video players (includes Microsoft's WMP) should be able to display the audio/video files listed below.  Each of the nine audio-only OGG container Vorbis audio files are between 1-3 MB each converted at Ogg encoder setting '6'.

The free file hosting is provided by BoxStr.com, so availability of certain files may be uncertain depending on the allowed download bandwidth...


MIDI demonstration file:
SYSTEM SHOCK Introduction theme MIDI file: 49,878 bytes
Introthm.MID MIDI file: (Miles eXtended MIDI file Introthm.XMI converted to standard MIDI file Introthm.MID via Dosbox v0.65 MIDI capture)



Pre-Adlib FM:
Low-res video Intro sample: 2.05MB AVI (2:05) (11,025Hz mono)
intro_pcspeaker.avi PC Speaker 1-voice version: (Dosbox v0.65 PC Speaker emulation)

Low-res video Intro sample: 2.96MB AVI (2:06) (22,050Hz stereo)
Tandy 3-voice version: (Dosbox v0.65 Tandy soundcard emulation)



FM Synthesis:
Low-res video Intro sample: 2.35MB AVI (2:20) (22,050Hz stereo)
Adlib FM version: (Dosbox v0.65 Adlib soundcard emulation)

Audio-only sample: 1.31MB Ogg Vorbis (1:51) (22,050Hz stereo)
SoundBlaster 2.0 with SB1 driver version: (Actual SoundBlaster 2.0 (CT1350B) soundcard - Miles AIL2 driver A32SBFM.DLL)

Note: The SoundBlaster 2.0 recording used is courtesy of member 5u3 of the this forum.


Audio-only sample: 2.38MB Ogg Vorbis (1:49) (22,050Hz stereo)
SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 with SBPro2/SB16 driver version: (Actual SoundBlaster Pro v2.0 (CT1600) soundcard - Miles AIL2 driver A32SP2FM.DLL)

Note: The SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 recording used is courtesy of member 5u3 of the this forum.


Audio-only sample: 2.28MB Ogg Vorbis (1:49) (22,050Hz stereo)
SoundBlaster AWE32 PnP with SBPro2/SB16 driver version: (Actual SoundBlaster AWE32 PnP (CT3980) soundcard - Miles AIL2 driver A32SP2FM.DLL)

Note: The SoundBlaster AWE32 PnP recording used is courtesy of member 5u3 of the this forum.


Low-res video Intro sample: 2.MB AVI (2:09) (22,050Hz stereo)
SoundBlaster 16 version: (Actual SoundBlaster 16 soundcard - Miles AIL3 driver SBPRO2.MDI)



General MIDI:
Low-res video Intro sample: 2.18MB AVI (2:34) (22,050Hz stereo)
Yamaha SoftSynth S-YXG50 v4.23.14S WDM 2MB WaveRom version: (DosBox v0.65 MIDI passthru: WinXP Yamaha S-YXG50 MIDI emulation)

Low-res video Intro sample: 2.18MB AVI (2:34) (22,050Hz stereo)
Microsoft WinXP DirectMusic MIDI version: (DosBox v0.65 MIDI passthru: WinXP(SP2) Roland GM/GS Roland licensed samples softsynth)

Audio-only sample: 2.70MB Ogg Vorbis (1:55) (44,100Hz stereo)
Virtual Sound Canvas v3.23 version: (Dosbox v0.65 MIDI passthru: WinXP - Roland VSC v3.23 using SC-55 ~2MB WaveRom samples)

Audio-only sample: 2.44MB Ogg Vorbis (1:47) (44,100Hz stereo)
Roland SCC-1A MIDI version: (Roland SCC-1A ISA adapter ~4MB WaveRom samples)

Note: The Roland SCC-1A recording used is courtesy of member 5u3 of the this forum.

Audio-only sample: 2.83MB Ogg Vorbis (1:49) (44,100Hz stereo)
Roland SC-88VL MIDI version: (Roland SC-88VL ~8MB WaveRom samples in SC-55 emulation mode)




Gravis Ultrasound:
Low-res video Intro sample: 2.56MB AVI (2:34) (22,050Hz stereo)
Gravis Ultrasound Classic version: (Dosbox v0.65 Gravis Ultrasound soundcard emulation)

Note: This Gravis Ultrasound sample used the v4.11 release patches, overlaid with Propatches Lite v1.61, along with the 14 SYSTEM SHOCK specific custom patches. The SYSTEM SHOCK vF1.6C program INSTALL.EXE was used to play the Introthm.xmi XMIDI music.


Audio-only sample: 1.32MB Ogg Vorbis (2:00) (22,050Hz stereo ?)
Gravis Ultrasound Classic version: (Dosbox v0.65 Gravis Ultrasound soundcard emulation)

Note: The Gravis Ultrasound sample used the v4.11 release patches, along with the 14 SYSTEM SHOCK specific custom patches. The SYSTEM SHOCK vF1.6C program INSTALL.EXE was used to play the Introthm.xmi XMIDI music.


Audio-only sample: 2.45MB Ogg Vorbis (2:45) (22,050Hz stereo ?)
Gravis Ultrasound ACE version: (Actual Gravis Ultrasound ACE soundcard, 8-bit samples 1024K patchset)


Note: The Gravis Ultrasound sample used the v4.11 release patches, along with the 14 SYSTEM SHOCK specific custom patches. The SYSTEM SHOCK vF1.5P program INSTALL.EXE was used to play the Introthm.xmi XMIDI music.
Note: The Gravis Ultrasound ACE recording used is courtesy of member 5u3 of the this forum.


Low-res video in-Game sample: 3.26MB AVI (2:34) (22,050Hz stereo)
Gravis Ultrasound Classic version: (Dosbox v0.65 Gravis Ultrasound soundcard emulation)

Note: The Gravis Ultrasound sample used the v4.11 release patches, along with the 14 SYSTEM SHOCK specific custom patches.



Sound Blaster AWE32/64:
Audio-only sample: 2.37MB Ogg Vorbis (1:47) (22,050Hz stereo)
SoundBlaster AWE32 PnP  version: (Actual SoundBlaster AWE32 PnP (CT3980) soundcard - Miles AIL2 driver A32GFX.DLL)

Note: The SoundBlaster AWE32 recording used is courtesy of member 5u3 of the this forum.


Audio-only sample: 2.28MB Ogg Vorbis (1:49) (22,050Hz stereo)
SoundBlaster AWE64 Gold  version: (Actual SoundBlaster AWE64 Gold (CT4390) soundcard - Miles AIL2 driver A32AWE32.DLL)

Note: The SoundBlaster AWE64 recording used is courtesy of member 5u3 of the this forum.



Appreciate your time and comments,

dvwjr

Edit: Change of file hosts.
Edit: Added SC-88VL example
Edit: Change of file hosts.
Edit: Change of file hosts.
Edit: Update of fille host.